How To Think Like A Genius Transcript
For Hypnotic Marketing Fusion Students ONLY
Audio Transcript of “How to Think Like a Genius”
By Dr. Joe Vitale
HypnoticMarketing.com
“Unleash Your Hidden Creativity and Begin
to Think Like EINSTEIN Once You Learn
This Step By Step Formula to Accessing the
Untapped Powers of Your Mind!”
Joe:
Hello everybody, this is Dr. Joe Vitale with another inner circle interview for Hypnotic
Marketing Fusion members only. Well, I’m very excited because today we’re going to
expand your mind. We’re going to be talking about creativity, creativity techniques and
how to think more like Einstein or somebody along those lines.
And one of my favorite people of all time, one of my favorite authors, one of my dear
friends of many decades, a man whose works, whose books, whose tapes, whose research
I greatly admire, that I greatly follow, who I have said is a living Einstein or a DaVinci is
on the line with me, and I’m talking about Win Wenger.
He is a pioneer in the field of creativity and creative method, accelerated learning, brain
and mind development and political economy. Win has written many books, I think
something like over 48 published books so far. One of my all-time favorite books is one
called, Discovering the Obvious -- Discovering the Obvious. I even love the title:
Discovering the Obvious. I ended up buying several copies of that, giving them away to
friends and keeping more than one copy near me almost at all times.
Win has also written, Beyond Teaching and Learning, his most widely popular work that
he wrote with Richard Poe called, The Einstein Factor – The Einstein Factor. He’s also
famous for a work called, How to Increase your Intelligence. He also has a couple audio
programs with Nightingale Connet. And so, without further ado, Win, thank you for
being on the line.
Win:
My pleasure. I had to kind of look over my shoulder a little bit there during the
introduction to see who you were talking about.
Joe:
Well, look in the mirror, because, I’m talking about you, and you know I’ve known you
for decades, and I’ve known of your work for a very long time and you and I don’t get to
talk very often, but I greatly admire you. And I have told you before that I think that you
are a living Einstein.
And the most wonderful thing about this is not only are you creative, but you teach
people how to be creative, and that’s the real reason why I wanted you to be on this
interview for my Hypnotic Marketing Fusion members, because I’m giving people a lot
of information. I’m giving them a lot of tools and techniques. And I’m interviewing
people who are helping them think out of the box.
For example, I did a recent interview with Aaron Krishman who’s a legendary public
relations expert. This guy promoted the Three Stooges and Dean Martin and worked for
presidents and was a co-owner of the Chicago Red Sox, I think it was. And he openly
said that he can find writers; writers were a dime a dozen, but idea people were very hard
to find.
And so, I just couldn’t help but think I really care about the people in this Hypnotic
Fusion Inner Circle, and I want them to be able to come up with ideas. I want them to
stretch their minds. I want them to look outside of the box or inside the box or under the
box or whatever we want to create this metaphor to make it work. So, Win, that’s why I
have you on the call. You game for all of this?
Win:
Surely.
Joe:
Well, first question is, “Can anyone be more creative?”
Win:
Without a question. The matter is so very simple if you understand basic psychology,
you understand very easily at least the basic outline of how to be more creative. It’s a
function of what portion of your own ideas that you make a concrete response to.
Joe:
Well, you’ll have to explain that because a lot of people that I hear from will say that
they’re not creative, that they’re not visual, that they don’t think through anything
unusual or what they might consider to be out of the ordinary. And I guess we need to
start there, is how do you address those skeptics or those people who think that I am who
I am, and I don’t think creatively?
Win:
Every one of us has all sorts of stuff going on all of the time, and once you’ve trained
yourself to look for attention cues in people’s responses, you’ll see it going on in other
people. You can even see it going on in dogs who aren’t the swiftest thing around.
Joe:
Well, give me an example of what you mean, how can we notice that? Maybe a story of
your own or how we might notice it, whether in a dog or in a co-worker.
Win:
Well, in a co-worker, you see the eyes flick up and to the sides one way or another. You
know something’s caught their attention. Ask them what’s in your awareness just then
and it’s close enough to the stimulus that there’s a good chance of [inaudible 4:48]
identify with what that was before it got away. And in yourself, there are all sorts of
ways of invoking it. Maybe, let me start with one very simple measure and get anyone
halfway to genius. Are you ready for this?
Joe:
You can get anybody halfway to genius?
Win:
In one quick stroke.
Joe:
This sounds like, and I’m a marketing guy and a copyrighter, so I hear headlines and
opportunities everywhere, so I’m hearing, I see this headline here: “How to Become…”
“With One Technique, How to Get Halfway to Genius.”
Win:
And this is for free.
Joe:
And this is what? This is for free? You certainly have my attention, Win, so proceed.
Win:
Okay. At this point, when I’m teaching this to a group of people, I whip out of my
pocket a steno pad and ruffle through it as high technology process, but let me explain
what’s going on there. The law of effect is that you get more of what you reinforce.
Joe:
You get more of what you reinforce.
Win:
And of course, you also get less of what you don’t reinforce. Have you ever had the
experience of starting to get an idea or something, and you let it slip away and then it was
gone?
Joe:
Yeah.
Win:
Many times a day, do you have that experience?
Joe:
Yeah, I think I’ve trained myself more or less to pursue all of those ideas. This is why
wherever I go, I seem to see ideas and opportunities -
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
I’m not dismissing them. I’m actually curious and I look and go, “Huh? I wonder what
that is or where that would go if I pursued it.”
Win:
Do you make them sort of concrete response such as making a note?
Joe:
I’m a great believer in making notes.
Win:
And that’s the difference because every time you don’t do that, you let something slip
away, you’re reinforcing the behavior being uncreative.
Joe:
Okay, so -
Win:
You’re reinforcing the idea that your ideas aren’t worth dealing with, but if you do make
some concrete response to them, that reinforces not only the idea; it reinforces the
behavior of having ideas.
Joe:
So are you suggesting we’re already getting these ideas but most of us are not paying any
attention to them or dismissing them, not reconfirming them, acknowledging them,
writing them down, and so they’re gone?
Win:
That’s absolutely correct.
Joe:
Aha! So, a fundamental premise that I’m hearing from you that I, maybe unspoken from
you, but I’m speaking it, is that the creative process is always going on. Ideas are always
around us or in our awareness us or in the air around us, I guess, in our awareness. And
it’s our choice to either pay attention to them or not, and most of us unconsciously are
just dismissing them.
Win:
Correct. We’ve trained ourselves to pay attention only to what we’re paying attention to,
whatever that is and to treat everything else as a distraction, try to shut it away.
Joe:
Well, how do we begin to change this, so we begin to pay more attention to what we’ve
just totally blocked out or blacked out?
Win:
One is the obvious simple one of whenever you do start to notice yourself having an idea,
you try [inaudible 8:10] you were describing yourself doing. You make some sort of
concrete response to it. You make a note of it, not only in order to have that idea for
later, but in order to reinforce the fact that you’re having ideas.
Joe:
I keep notebooks everywhere. I have a notebook in my pocket, I have a notebook in my
car, I have, - I’m talking about little notebooks. I don’t carry a giant thing.
Win:
I hope you have the practice with it of entering the notes into your computer every three
or four days.
Joe:
I don’t. Now do you -
Win:
Paper piled all over the place, and -
Joe:
I do. I have paper piled everywhere. It’s a fire hazard and a disorganized mess.
Win:
Okay. I have a suggestion then.
Joe:
Tell me.
Win:
Aiming at practice of every three, four days entering your notes into the computer where
a search code will help you find your data. I asked - when I was buried under piles of
scraps of papers, scrappies of papers - still buried under piles of papers and books, but
that’s another thing. The little scrappies -
They were particularly a problem, and I asked my own image stream how to solve that.
Then I got back a literal image, and it was a plank by two inches wide and about 4 feet
long with two rails, two rows of nails down it. And the idea that came with that was each
nail represented a classification, and that spike each little scrappy on whichever
classification it fit until I’d gone through the piles. And then I could summarize each
classification to that point, and then I was able to keep up from that point on with the
oncoming new scrappies.
Joe:
Well, I’ve got two or three questions that just burst into my brain. The first one is, you
did something to come up with that image, and you said that very quickly. So what did
you do? Was that a part of your image streaming -
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
When you said - Okay.
Win:
Yes, I literally asked my faculties a question and looked to see what was the answer, and
most of the time the answers comes symbolically, sometimes they come concretely, and
that was an example of the concrete.
Joe:
Okay. Let me break that down for the people who don’t understand or who haven’t read
your books or been to your web site, which I will give out later. And so, the first thing is,
you said you asked your faculties the question. What do you mean? You asked your
brain? You asked yourself? How do you ask your faculties a question?
Win:
The conscious part of me asked the unconscious parts of me that handles such
information, that question, and specifically that question, and then I looked in to see what
the answer was, and that was -
Joe:
And where did you look when you say you looked within or you looked in, where did
you look?
Win:
Well, basically, for most people, you close your eyes, and you find yourself looking at
images, and if you haven’t learned how to –[Inaudible 11:17] I guess I could say, if you
haven’t learned not to be able to do this then because everybody does it as a child.
Everybody has that at least as a child. Then you just look and see what’s playing, and
you don’t expect what the contents of that answer are, you just look in and see what’s
actually going on in your mental imagery.
Now, a lot of us have been trained to be able to perceive that, and so you have to search
for it a little bit or experiment with doing that with different backgrounds of light or
different times a day relative to eating and so forth. Or you can go online and get
complete instruct [Inaudible 12:06], not only the complete instructions but the whole
curriculum of stuff how to image stream with back-up procedures to make sure you are
able to pick up your images and also how [Inaudible 12:20] to teach entire groups at a
time.
Joe:
Now, are these instructions at your web site because you blinked out or something there
for a second.
Win:
Yes, at my web site, winwenger.com.
Joe:
Okay, that’s www.winwenger. com. And I’ll give it again, and I’ll give it later so people
have time to get their pen and pencil, which they should already have of course –
www.winwenger.com. Okay, so the instructions are there. What you said was the first
step was you posed a question to your faculties, to your mind, your brain and the second
one was you allowed images to just sort of stream.
Win:
Yes, they come up of seemingly of their own accord as a response.
Joe:
Now, how do I know what image that comes up is relevant to the answer that that’s
appropriate to my question?
Win:
If that’s your intention, that’s what’s going to happen.
Joe:
Aha! Okay, so if I ask this question, I need to have a clear question because that’s what’s
directing everything. And then the second part of this is kind of letting go, because I’ve
got to close my eyes and allow the images to come up and because of the question, the
images that come up will be relevant to it though I may not consciously know it
immediately. Is that correct?
Win:
That’s correct.
Joe:
So, how do I decode these? Because I may get an image of a basketball with a
grasshopper on top of it. How will I know if that’s - How will I know how it’s relevant?
Win:
Go ahead and assume that it’s relevant, and the way to get it to meaning is to then ask
your faculties for - thank them for giving you that answer but ask their help in
understanding it. That helps take the form of another image or set of images, which are
very different but which are the same answer to the same question.
Joe:
Fascinating.
Win:
And you do that twice, and that means you’ve got three sets of images, each of which is
different from the other, but there’s overlap and if you record enough detail from each,
you’ll find points where they overlap.
It might be that the everything in all three images has a curve to it like a basketball, or it
might be that you have the same kind of finish on objects on the second and third images
of that basketball. Or the color or it might be one thing perched on top of another,
whatever is the same when everything else is different is the main answer, the main
message. That makes it easier.
Joe:
Well, I can easily see where this would be taking this out of my typical way of answering
problems because I’m not controlling it anymore. I’m not just coming from a conscious
awareness. I’ve allowed the circle of possibilities to be greater, if I can word it that way.
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
And correct me if I’m wrong because I’m trying to interpret what you’re saying here.
I’m trying to create a type of formula so the very first step is knowing what that question
is. The very second one is to allow the image to come up. And the third one seems to be
to assume that the images that came up have relevance and meaning, and then look for it.
Win:
Yes, and then what you do to find that relevance or meaning is to generate more with the
same intentions, which are different except that they are somehow the same answers to
the same questions. And then you identify what is the same and I’d highlight the
message for you.
Joe:
Fascinating. And all of these directions are at your web site, www.winwenger.com.
Joe:
Let me make this more specific for people. Let me look at the idea that - what if
somebody needs to come up with a news release, and this goes back to what I was talking
about the publicist that we interviewed fairly recently, somebody needs to come up with a
news release, and the idea for an effective news release is they want news, not just a
piece of paper.
They want to create news, not news releases. So, they’re looking for a news angle for
their business, and they might have an Internet web site or whatever it happens to be, a
retail store or dry cleaning, I don’t know what it is. How would you walk them through
or tutor them or advise them to be more creative, to look for that news release angle?
Win:
Go for that specific question. I would, there are two different things I could do. First in
keeping what we’ve just been discussing, ask yourself what is THE most valuable thing
for you to say in this news release. Then close eyes and start looking at your image
stream and describe whatever comes. And if that doesn’t immediately ring your mind as
to what that is, you then do what I was suggesting, you thank your faculties for that
information, but I have to have help in understanding it. That helps to take the form of a
second set of images and then if need be, a third. And then you find the thing that
suggests the main angle to you that you want to play.
Joe:
Interesting.
Win:
So that’s one very direct way, and there’s another.
Joe:
Yes? Tell me.
Win:
You already know what you think are the most important things you want to say. You
just haven’t got a hook on how to start it off yet or what really to say around it. And so,
write two or three sentences. This is the two sheets process.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
You break out two sheets of paper. On one, you write out the two or three sentences with
the main things you wanted to say in the news release. While you’re writing that out,
notice that there are other things that pop up and in and out of your awareness as well.
While you are writing, because this is the case all of the time, not just when you’re
writing but with anything you’re doing; there’s always secondary stuff going on - some
of the stuff is secondary.
So you notice what occurs to you, and you make a record of that while you’re writing
down those two or three sentences. You make a note of that on that second sheet of
paper, and there may be a number of things that occur to you before you can get to the
end of what you’re looking for once you get to the end of the second or third thing.
Joe:
So you’ve got two sheets of paper going on in front of you, and you’re kind of
multitasking, you’re writing a news release on one, and you’re writing some images that
are occurring as you’re writing the first news release. Am I understanding correctly?
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
Wow.
Win:
And then the ‘wow’ is just beginning, I guess, because -
Joe:
Yeah.
Win:
Part of it
Joe:
Yeah.
Win:
You write those things, two or three sentences again, the same words even but in blocked
capitals. And while you’re doing that, you again pay attention to what else has occurred
to you and record the what else on that second sheet of paper.
Joe:
When you say you write out the two or three sentences, are you talking about rewriting
the news release but in blocked capitals?
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
In blocked print.
Joe:
In blocked print.
Win: Because as you do so, that evokes secondary awarenesses and perceptions for you,
and you want to capture these as they happen instead of just brushing them to the side.
And as you capture these, record them on that second sheet of paper.
Joe:
How long of a process is this? Do you imagine -
Win:
I’m talking about maybe a five or ten minute process all totaled.
Joe:
Wow. And out of that five or ten minutes do people tend to get stuff that they’ve never
imagined before?
Win:
Oh, yes.
Joe:
I mean is it that startling?
Win:
Yes, and I usually recommend a third round on that, too, doing it in an exotic
handwriting. For instance if yours is this forward slanting, make it backward; if it’s
large, you write small; small you write large.
Joe:
Wow.
Win:
Large you write -
Joe:
I keep saying, ‘wow’ because I’m impressed here, and I’m ‘wowed’. Let me -
Win:
You use the computer -
Joe:
Yeah.
Win:
You can do it with varying the color of the print or the color of the background or of the
fonts you’re using. The idea is to get three different representations of the same basic
information. And while generating those representations, you capture those evoked side
bands of awareness that come up with doing that. And then when you’ve got the three
representations sitting there, you again look at the one type of representation and see
what not only the awarenesses that are evoked with that but the style of those
awarenesses compared with the secondary awarenesses that are evoked with the second,
let’s say the blocked print or whatever.
And out of that whole mixture, you’ll find yourself with an immense wealth of options
and alternatives and things that’ll occur to you to do and you start down from there.
Joe:
Okay. Let me make sure I understand this. Okay, so if I’m going to do this on my
computer, I might have two pieces of paper, if you will, or two blank documents opened
up on my screen -
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
So, on the left, and does it matter if it’s left or right? I’m going to assume on the left I’m
writing my news release. I write the first three or four lines.
Win:
Yeah.
Joe:
Okay. As I’m writing it, I may get tangent ideas, free association type images that are
coming up to my awareness, and that could be anything from anything from - I
mentioned earlier the basketball with the grasshopper on it, or it’s a UFO flying through
space, whatever it is, I go ahead and just write that down on the right side, the other sheet
of paper?
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
And so, I do that for how long?
Win:
Well, after you’ve made your notes on the associations that came first, you’ve finished
writing out those two or three lines, in the, at least what was originally intended for the
news release -
Joe:
Yes.
Win:
You then, when the flow of associations lets up, then you start with the second writing.
Joe: Okay. And the second writing would be if I’m doing it on the computer, you say I
can do it with a different color or a different font or a different size, or -
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
Just play with something different, so it may trigger something different within me
because it looks different on the computer. Is that right?
Win:
That’s correct.
Joe:
Okay, and then as I am writing the same words in the news release, I’ll pay attention to
what’s being triggered again image-wise, and I’ll record the images that show up,
whatever that happens to be on that other sheet of paper or that other document that’s
open on my computer.
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
And in any instance, it’s important to go ahead and write down everything that occurs
whether it seems relevant or not because it is relevant even if it seems way off the wall.
Joe:
And that’s the fundamental premise to everything you’re teaching is that this is relevant,
though you may not consciously piece it together yet.
Win:
Yeah. And when you get it where you can look at, you look at it, then you discover all
kinds of things.
Joe:
Well, let’s play this out for a minute. Say we’ve done this for this news release, and I’ve
gone through three cycles here. What might I end up with? Am I going to end up, I
mean, maybe you don’t even know. Will I end up with a new kind of news release, or
will I end up with a different angle? Or am I going to end up -
Win:
At the very least, you’ll end up with a new and more powerful angle.
Joe:
Interesting. And one I didn’t see beforehand most likely.
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
Wow. How do you come up with these things? How do you come up with a process like
this?
Win:
By paying attention.
Joe:
Well, what are you paying attention -
Win:
It is as simple as that.
Joe:
What are you paying attention to? What are you paying attention to?
Win:
Things as they occur to me.
Joe:
I’m sorry?
Win:
Things as they occur to me. Things that I notice.
Joe:
Do you have volumes of notes everywhere?
Win:
Oh, yeah.
Joe:
Books. I remember -
Win:
That plank.
Joe: Yes, I remember Steve Allen, the comedian and talk show host had hundreds of
notebooks because he’d recorded all of his ideas in these notebooks. And they weren’t
just diaries, but they were like his DaVinci writings, and they were all over his house.
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
And of course, he was amazingly prolific and had his own talk show and created
“meeting of the minds” and all of this other stuff but he acknowledged every idea that
came to him, whether he knew what he was going to do with it or not at the time. He
recorded it all which I think is your premise and my premise is that when you keep
recording it, you are telling yourself you want more of it.
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
You are reconfirming it.
Win:
Yes, and it may not be physically possible to keep up with it all.
Joe:
Yeah.
Win:
But as much as you can and you live a very rewardingly, creative life.
Joe:
I can imagine that you must be high all the time. Are you? Are you stimulated all the
time?
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
Do you sleep?
Win:
In fact I do some of my best work in the hour before waking.
Joe:
Do you sleep for, you know, five hours, seven hours or one hour a night and take naps
like some people do, or -
Win:
Well, I’m still a family man, husband, so I have to keep conventional hours, and maybe I
need them. I don’t know because I really haven’t tried out the Edison, Bucky Fuller-
technique of a nap every couple of minutes or a few minutes but they - I do my some of
my best work in the hour before waking. It’s good to keep a tape recorder, or audio
recorder I should say. I’m dating myself when I say tape recorder -- or a note pad close
by your bedside or close by where you go immediately when you wake up.
Joe:
Is there a preferred method? Should it be written, or should it be audio? Should we be
recording these ideas or writing them down? Does it matter?
Win:
It probably differs from person to person.
Joe:
I have a friend who records all kinds of ideas while he’s driving or wherever he’s at.
Now he has buckets of audiotapes he can’t just flip through like you can a notebook to
find your ideas.
Win:
What he could do on each tape, I don’t know if he can go back and do them all
retrospectively, but he could make up a descriptive index card on each tape, and he’d do
well probably to have fifteen- to thirty-minute tapes rather than the longer ones. And
then he’d have a date, put a typed date on there and a brief description and leave space
for a title when he’s got a couple dozen of these made out. Then he has a classification
system once he’s got the sense of how that’s going and then he can put titles in according
to that classification system.
Joe:
Sounds like you’ve already solved that problem.
Win:
Well, I still have piles of stuff around. If you visited my house, I’d have to hand you a
ball of twine when you came in the door.
Joe:
Well, that leads me to wonder, are there any software programs that help us either to
think creatively and/or to organize all of our creativity when we start coming up with
these ideas. So is there software that you prefer or like or endorse?
Win:
I haven’t found any. Well, I come to think of it, I probably should look for some because
my way of living here is a little hard on anybody else that gets exposed to it.
Joe:
Yeah.
Win:
But uh -
Joe:
So you’re not using any particular software program yourself? You’re just with Word or
whatever it happens to be.
Win:
Yeah, but if you do the thing that I suggested for the scrappies, you have everything in
one big file with a search program, and you can find just anything you’ve entered for -
Joe:
Well, do you use Word for that? Is that just in one big file where you’re dumping more
and more ideas, scrappies?
Win:
Yeah, well sooner or later, I transfer files and the one big file, yes. Wherever I happen to
be and whatever I happen to be doing at the time, I try to file for that and then pulls you
into the main file.
Joe:
Well, here’s an interesting question. Have you come up against any problems that could
not be solved? I guess I should word that with any problems that could not be solved
with your creativity methods?
Win:
I don’t think I have directly. Indirectly in that sometimes it just doesn’t occur to you or at
least sometimes it hasn’t occurred to me that come to grips with a formidable problem-
solving procedure and then go in and do that. So, and I guess it’s just because there’s so
many issues littering the landscape and can’t get around to all of them at least anytime
soon.
Joe:
Well, what about the big ones like curing cancer? Have you taught your methods to the
people that are doing their research? Is that -
Win:
One of the things of how to problem solve is how to get that to the people who are doing
the research because well, I’m drafting a book of creativity techniques for scientists that
would bear on that. But the scientists are for all that they’re coming up with exotic
findings are nevertheless a very conservative ‘in’ group. They had a hard time in the
beginning of the twentieth century, because all sorts of people came out of the woodwork
claiming they were scientists with their own, shall we say, unique ideas.
Joe:
Yes.
Win:
And they’ve been sensitive on that ever since.
Joe:
So what I’m hearing is that they seem to be a kind of consciously driven; they’re not so
much unconsciously driven group?
Win:
Except for the really bright ones. The really bright ones, Jonas Fox and the -
Joe:
Well, I know what you mean there. Well, what are you most proud of when it comes to
your problem solving methods. I guess I’ll take techniques first. What is the technique
that you are most proud of when it comes to being more creative or solving problems that
we should know about? Is it the image streaming? Is it something else?
Win:
Let me come at that from quite a different way because there are a number of specific
techniques that point from which I’m pleased. I think of the maybe 400 some creativity-
related processes and techniques, which are not unprofessional, used around the planet. I
think I’ve invented about half of them.
Joe:
That’s pretty amazing. That would be two hundred and some?
Win:
At least. Probably as many in the accelerated learning area. But what people don’t
realize is that’s actually the same thing, but there’s only one thing of which I can claim
any degree of credit, and the rest follows naturally from it.
About thirty-five or so years ago, I was, yeah, thirty-five years ago, I was teaching full-
time in a small college and looking for stuff to improve the, enrich the learning of my
students and I first got into the creativity literature at that time, started assimilating some
of the stuff that was in the literature, [Inaudible 33:21] CPS process, for example, which
was still a mainstay and kinetics and then later other forms.
It occurred to me to propose at that time to anybody who would listen, and of course,
only my students would have to sit still and listen, that if you have a good method of
solving problems one of the best problems to work it on is on the problem of how to
create better methods of solving problems.
Joe:
Oh boy! I love that.
Win:
And of course one of the best things to work those better methods in turn, you don’t stop.
You keep on reinvesting your best methods into creating better ones. Very simple
principle. And once you grab that tiger by the tail, you get dragged across all kinds of
landscapes.
Joe:
Well, what about for the people who are listening who are largely marketers?
Win:
Well, they can do that now with whatever they now have as a problem solving process
worked out on the same questions. And sooner or later, they’ll be coming up with
techniques comparable to what you and I are now working with. But, or they can take a
shortcut and work with those techniques and then go on from there inventing their own
techniques. I mean, there’s no magic secret to it. This is something anybody can do.
We’re the only ones so far who’ve bothered to do it.
Joe:
Right. Well, why is that? Simply because they don’t have the awareness? Or is it a
resistance to it?
Win:
Well, people generally don’t appreciate the possibilities open to them.
Joe:
Now that opens a can of worms. Does that have to do with a fear of change? You know,
we want it the way, we want change but we fear that we may lose whatever level of
security and happiness we have by changing.
Win:
Maybe it’s not even as dramatic as that.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
It’s just that nearly all of us see only what we expect to see, and we hear only what we
expect to hear.
Joe:
Ahh! Well, I like that. That’s even more fascinating because we’re stretching the
possibilities, which is what creativity is all about in my view of it.
Win:
Yeah, all the time we’re being shown by the world around us physically as well as by our
own internal processes, we’re being shown all sorts of things we didn’t expect, and so we
don’t see them.
Joe:
Okay. Let me make this even more bottom line. Say we’ve got somebody on the line
who is, they’ve got a sales letter for their web site and they get a one or two percent
response when they send it out.
They’re listening to this conversation and they’re thinking about new possibilities, and
suddenly they’re thinking to themselves, “Wow, I’ve gotten a two-percent response in the
past, and that’s been good. But what if I applied a problem-solving method to this and
went for more like I actually tried to get a seventy-percent response to my sales letter?”
How would they go about creating that new reality? How would they go from using your
creativity techniques or whatever advice you would give at this point, and I know I’m
putting you on the spot, so go for the ride with me here. They’re going from a two-
percent response they want seventy-percent because they suddenly realize that they’ve
been getting what they’ve been expecting, so now they’re going to expect seventy-
percent. How do they get there?
Win:
Well, I guess one way would be to ask their image stream what angled plays that would
get them a seventy-percent response.
Joe:
Now when you say the image stream, does this mean back to the -
Win:
First thing we were talking about
Joe:
Yeah, that we have the focus question: how do I go from a two-percent to a seventy-
percent response, close our eyes and then we’re going to start getting images that will be
somehow be relevant to the answer. We may not immediately know how that is, or we
can do the other process you talked about, which I forgot the name of, where we have the
two different sheets of paper. Was there a name for that process, Win?
Win:
Two sheets is one name for it, another is just the evoke side bands response.
Joe:
Wow, now we’ve got a very kindergarten name, and we have a very scientific name.
Evoke the side bands response. I kind of like that. That sounds very classy. Evoke the
side bands response is probably the one I would do, but the two sheets of paper can be the
one anybody else can do, and they’re the same thing.
And so what we would be doing then, is correct me if I’m wrong here because I’m going
to mind read for a second, we would be delving into a larger awareness that we’re not
usually paying attention to. It’s still our awareness but we’ve been coming from
consciously controlled view of what we think is possible. Suddenly, we are anticipating
to get a seventy-percent response. We’re looking for a way to do that and what we’re
going to pull from is our unconscious. Is that true?
Win: Our beyond conscious. I don’t call it unconscious anymore.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
We may be unconscious, but it is.
Joe:
Oh we are unconscious, but it’s not unconscious.
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
And what is it? Is it in us? Or are we in it?
Win:
Well, here’s the thing of it. You know how the limbic brain is not really a single organ;
it’s a whole collection of various organs that we’ve lumped together and call the limbic.
Joe:
Yes.
Win:
Well, it’s the same issue with the so-called unconscious. It actually describes a great
many different functions, so many in fact, you can’t make a generalization on what it is
or what it does. Not that we don’t hear a lot of generalizations on what it is and what it
does, tossed around. But the, let me describe one facet of it.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
Something like two-percent of your brain associates by words and word concepts.
Joe:
Two-percent of our brain -
Win:
And that’s the part that we’re mostly conscious with.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
Somewhere, and it differs according to the authority, but somewhere between sixty and
ninety, and I think something like eighty-percent of the brain volume associates by
sensory image, which would lead you to suspect something of where most of our
intelligence is. And that’s forty times as much as the part of our brain that consciously
associates by word and word concepts.
Joe:
Holy smokes!
Win:
And it sort of gets deeper.
Joe:
Go for it.
Win:
If we look at measurements of how past information transits in the brain, how fast
communications are. The part of our brain that thinks consciously in words and word
concepts streams down to the speed of the language that we speak. That’s what we’re
conscious with.
Joe:
Yes.
Win:
The rest of the cortex, and that’s only part of the picture, the rest of the cortex is some ten
thousand times faster than what goes on in our conscious mind. Stories are not in there.
And the rest of the brain that the most important part, the limbic portions, are ten
thousand times faster in their processing time than is the rest of the cortex, and so that’s
ten million times faster than our conscious processing of information, which is fortunate,
because we have such a database to work in.
Joe:
Well, now that I hear all of this, I feel like I’m very shallow when I just talk.
Win:
It helps to retain at least a little awareness of having awareness.
Joe:
A little awareness of having awareness. What about the old famous quote that says we’re
only using ten percent of our brain? Are we even using that?
Win:
No, we’re not.
Joe:
What would you say?
Win:
The study was done, and this is the funny thing because everybody passes that
information along especially in workshops, but it’s folklore. Nobody bothers to go back
and check the data, and it was done by C. Z. Young, Y-o-u-n-g, in the book called, A
Model of the Brain.
Joe:
Okay.
Win:
And it was published by Oxford University Press, I think, forty some years ago, and he
did the actual counting, took specimens of the brain and samples, and counted the actual
cells that had some degree of development to them.
And it is true that somewhere between when you measure whether a cell’s developed or
not by whether it has connections to other cells, it is true that you have about five to ten
percent of the brain cells developed. But it is not true that you have five to ten percent
development, because it does not take into account the degree of development.
Joe:
Amazing.
Win:
And when I’m speaking to the voice there is that if you look at most brain cells that are
developed, they have maybe a dozen or so connections to other cells, but some brain cells
have been counted with up to sixty-thousand connections with other cells. And so if you
factor those two factions together, then it’s not true that we have five to ten percent of the
brain developed. We have less than one percent of one percent of one percent of the
brain developed.
Joe:
Oh. Wow!
Win:
So, there’s some room for improvement.
Joe:
I would say! Oh, I can’t even repeat what you just said. Less than one percent of one
percent of whatever you said.
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
But my jaws dropped. Oh, Win, I could talk to you for days or weeks. You are so
fascinating, so fascinating.
Win:
Well, it’s the stuff we’re doing is fascinating. I’m about as ordinary as anybody.
Joe:
What’s your favorite book? What’s the book that people should be getting and reading?
Is it The Einstein Factor, Discovering the Obvious, or something else?
Win:
Probably The Einstein Factor makes a good introduction. If you’re already into some of
the kind of work that’s done to get better than average results, then I would probably rank
Discovering the Obvious as a good choice. That’s among book titles and there are audio
courses as well.
Joe:
And is all of this on your web site, or do they have to go in a bookstore, Amazon,
Nightingale Connet? Where do you want the people to go?
Win:
Well, I think our web site would be a good starting point because all of the books that are
currently available, all of the books and audio courses that are currently available are in
the book review section in the web site.
Joe:
Okay. And that’s, www.winwenger.com. Now I’m not going to let you go just yet. I
want to ask another question or two if you’ll allow me, Win.
Win:
Fine.
Joe:
Okay, before, these people that have been listening probably have their brains fried with
all this information because we’ve really gone in deep, and I mean that literally. And
we’ve also expanded people including my own; awareness of what’s possible out here.
And we’ve clearly gone through at least two of your techniques that I can’t wait to start
using and again, I’m already a big fan of your work and a big believer in Discovering the
Obvious and a big fan of The Einstein Factor and your audio programs with Nightingale
and so forth.
So what would you advise people to do first, the people who are listening right now when
this call ends in a few minutes, what would you want them to do or urge them to do first
to begin thinking more creatively, to expand their mind and be looking for those money
making ideas to change the two percent response on a sales letter to a seventy percent or
higher? What would you advise them to do?
Win:
Put something in their pocket that they can carry with them everywhere that they can
record their perceptions, their observations and their ideas in.
Joe:
That easy?
Win:
That easy.
Joe:
Amazing.
Win:
And then, use it, of course. And literally carry that everywhere and use it and to ensure
that they don’t forget and leave it behind. One way to ensure that would be to put in the
value to your friend that if anybody ever caught you without it, your affordable memory
bank or your flash snatcher or whatever you want to call it that they get five dollars from
you. You wouldn’t forget it very often.
Joe:
Yeah, well these are marketing guys. They probably should make it worth five hundred
dollars or five thousand dollars. They should make it sting a little bit.
Win:
Maybe I should come around and look.
Joe:
Right. And what did you call it? You call it a flash something?
Win:
A flash snatcher.
Joe:
Flash snatcher?
Win:
Yeah.
Joe:
For flashes of insight?
Win: Yes.
Joe: Okay. And another question is that I like to ask people is what do you wish I had
asked you on this interview? Is there a question you really wish I or somebody would
ask you on an interview at some point?
Win:
I think you’ve covered most of the bases. We haven’t gone into my motives for all of
this, some which are admissible and some of which are probably need to be held in
reserve.
Joe:
Well, give me your best short answer to your motive for all of this.
Win:
I got interested in problem solving primarily because I’m a student of [inaudible 47:44]
civilization and why civilizations do the strange things they do and rise and fall. And
there are a lot of theories, including some of mine that seem pretty plausible on why
civilizations do themselves in, and nearly all of them have.
But one description fits all cases. And that is that people at all levels let problems pile up
faster than they were solving them until they became too much. If we improve the
general ability of people to solve problems, including their own problems, including
whatever they encounter, we improve therefore the prognosis of our own civilization,
which seems to be going through some of the same predispositions as other civilizations
did when they did themselves in.
Joe:
I didn’t know this. This is actually a huge noble cause that’s been motivating you.
Win:
Yes, I’ve been with this one a long time. I first started serious study of [inaudible 49:04]
civilizations back in 1949, and I’ve been at it ever since.
Joe:
1949?
Win:
Yes.
Joe:
Before I was born?
Win:
Now we know. You’re wet behind the ears.
Joe:
I’m still a puppy. Oh, that’s fascinating. Well, what would you say are the top problems,
maybe the top one, or two, or three problems that our current civilization needs to solve
because you are providing techniques. Maybe we need to know what the problems are in
your opinion to put these techniques to.
Win:
One of the several problems I put up near the top would be the, each of the reasons that
Jeremy Benson of the utilitarians originally gave for having democracy, which I’ve
defined as people having a meaningful say in the decisions which affect them. The
original reasons for having a democ [inaudible 50:10]…advantage pretty much to
[inaudible 50:13] ever since and increasingly so.
You can just raise a world issue, question or problem these days with almost any group of
people, including you in my own think tank, and the next sound you hear is the whack of
eyeballs hitting the ceiling because it’s gotten too uncomfortable even to think of
anything larger issues and so forth. And most people prefer not to and this is taking us a
long way from the basic reasons that Jeremy Benson gave why we should have
democracy. So I think we should the problem there then is if we can solve that one,
resolve that one before we lose what’s left of any democracy that we might have.
Joe:
And what specifically was that problem? Because you might have blinked out there for a
second?
Win:
The problem is that people no longer have the interest even in their own affairs.
Joe:
Oh, okay. A type of apathy.
Win:
Has them better informed than some distant decision-maker of what would be most in
their interest. Remember the greatest good for the greatest number was a basic argument,
and if everybody had input on the decisions that affected them, then the decision would
come out better, and now we’ve extinguished that condition.
Joe:
And is it because of apathy that we don’t care, or is it because the circle of information is
cut?
Win:
Apathy, because a number of things that we have done even representing the circle of
influence that you wield, Joe, if you tried to bring a matter to any politicians’ attention, in
Congress, especially, or the President or anybody of political note, the people who have
the responsibility for making your decisions never get to see your input.
Joe:
Oh. I see what you mean.
Win: And wouldn’t care if they did because they think they can do it all from pools that
are extremely sensitive to how the question or the polls are worded. So that well, I don’t
want to paint doom and gloom, but we do have a problem there, and I would rank that as
one of the top unsolved issues.
Joe: All right. And that’s a challenge for all the Hypnotic Marketing Fusion members
and anybody else that ends up listening to this recording is to use your methods on that
particular problem as well as their own problems. It’s not just about helping themselves
but helping all of us.
Win: That would be great.
Joe:
That would be wonderful. And we can all do that, so I’m encouraging people and
challenging people to do it and to think more of the entire planet and not just the
individual. So, Win, I’ve got to thank you. You’ve been wonderful.
Win:
Can I add a footnote?
Joe:
Yes, of course.
Win:
The reason the economy supplies most of what you want is that the suppliers have to take
into account the dollar votes that you make, the way the free market operates.
Joe:
Yes.
Win:
We’re not getting the equivalent of that politically, and the reason is the one we’ve just
been discussing about.
Joe:
That’s a great observation and a reminder, so we can use these methods to help resolve
that.
Win:
Yes.
Joe: All right. Win, thank you. Everybody go to www.winwenger.com. Sign up for his
newsletter, get his book, Discovering the Obvious, and get the other one, The Einstein
Factor. There’s forty-six more books there. There are two audio programs, published by
Nightingale which you can probably get though Win’s site or from nightingale.com, and
this interview’s been for Hypnotic Marketing Fusion Inner Circle members.
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